Request: adding Turnstile to repositories

[storm-crowMember]

https://github.com/chimera-linux/turnstile

I have been using void (runit) linux on an extremely lightweight build- for managing permissions related to seat management and wayland compositors, it has been really helpful, and I have been able to switch out login managers fairly easily. Comparatively, I’ve been trying to build some wayland based respins of antiX, and dealing with XDG_RUNTIME_DIR and all via ~/desktop-session has been much more difficult.

While turnstile is runit (and dinit) only, and doesn’t have a sysVinit implementation, I’ve found it to be a much more satisfying to work with than the ~/desktop-session/ folder. It works fairly well as an elogind/logind replacement, allows for implementing wayland compositors much more easily, and doesn’t bind us to only using slimski as an elogind free login manager. getting an inittab/sysvinit version working might be hard, and desktop-session-antiX does work well, breaking this off to a dedicated daemon rather than being part of desktop session might be useful.

[sybokMember]

Hi, there are other people that experimented with Wayland (I believe @abc-nix was one of them though (t)he(y) mentioned that).

From the linked GitHub repository:

Turnstile is a work in progress effort

with the version being 0.1.10 which (if semantic versionining) means any backwards-breaking changes can be introduced at this point; the commit history is sparse.
Based on this glance it seems to me to be rather too fresh to rely upon but I am not a this-deep tinkering person or antiX developer.

[abc-nixMember]

As sybok said, I have been driving wayland on antiX testing (now trixie) with runit init for over a year.

First I was using hyprland I built myself until vaxerski decided he needed the newest gcc (not even available in Debian experimental), so I jumped back to sway (which I don’t have to package myself fortunately), and have been using it ever since. I am looking at niri with curiosity, but haven’t studied it yet.

I suppose storm-crow doesn’t want a login manager, so nothing I can help with. I use greetd + concolekit + desktop-session to start sway, without any elogind. XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is managed by (greetd)+consolekit+PAM.

I will look into turnstile if it can replace consolekit, but I don’t think it will be that easy. No promises!

Corruption has two hands: the Right and the Left. Don't let them squeeze you.

[storm-crowMember]

Niri is wonderful tbh; my main interest in running wayland has been niri. Ive avoided hyprland on account of the dev’s general unprofessionalism (both in terms of personal conduct and overall code quality). Sway is great but so far doesn’t do much that i3 can’t (which is kind of its
On my main void linux machine (runit, no elogind, sway), ive been using seatd+turnstile+greetd to start sway, messing around with various login managers (current using greetd, but have messed around with Ly, kdm, and some others). Greetd is pretty nice due to the simplicity of the code, my biggest gripe with slimski is how … antiX specific it is (a fork of something pre-systemd instead of something more contemporary and init-agnostic).

If i have time this week, i might try building both a desktop-session+consolekit build, as well as making one where ive compiled turnstile from source. i dont understand sysVinit well enough to port turnstile, but it has been relatively stable when working on void.

[anticapitalistaForum Admin]

Packaged and will soon hit the repos (bulleye, trixie, testing and sid) – thanks to @ProwlerGR

Hope you @storm-crow will test it out on antiX and give feedback.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[techoreMember]

abc-nix wrote:

First I was using hyprland I built myself until vaxerski decided he needed the newest gcc (not even available in Debian experimental), so I jumped back to sway (which I don’t have to package myself fortunately), and have been using it ever since. I am looking at niri with curiosity, but haven’t studied it yet.

The gcc15 dependency was enough to nearly break my brain.

Niri is very good.

anticapitalista wrote:

Packaged and will soon hit the repos (bulleye, trixie, testing and sid) – thanks to @ProwlerGR

Hope you @storm-crow will test it out on antiX and give feedback.

Thank you, anticapitalista.

Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.

[ProwlerGrMember]

Good new is that I got it working with dinit, still a few quirks I need to sort-out though.

[techoreMember]

ProwlerGr wrote:

Good new is that I got it working with dinit, still a few quirks I need to sort-out though.

❤️

Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.

[ProwlerGrMember]

My tests with our new antiX runit-boot-module reveal that it plays much nicer with our runit implementation than dinit.

This just highlights my suspicions that our dinit-boot-module(-antix) based on the dinit-on-devuan project lacks some critical components – which is fair given that Mobin has clearly indicated to me that he has abandoned that project.

I will need to have a good look at our dinit-boot-module.

I will prepare a runit service package soon for those interested to test.

[ProwlerGrMember]

With current state of dinit, turnstile only tracks sessions (as in creates users UID folder under /run/turnstile when users log-in)
It currently can’t create /run/user/$UID & doesn’t export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR & doesn’t launch user services, as it does on all other distro’s that ship with dinit.

[ProwlerGrMember]

Update: A couple of Debian/Devuan devs (Mark Hindley & Ralph Ronnquist) have provided a backend for Turnstile that allow launching & spawning services with any service manager (in an agnostic way).

https://github.com/chimera-linux/turnstile/pull/34#issuecomment-3660317707

[ProwlerGrMember]

@anticapitalista
I have been testing the suss backend to also launch runit user services (instead of the so-called runit backend).

Apart from it being very flexible & powerful to do various auxiliary tasks in an init agnostic way, I am also finding it much more efficient in spawning the runit user services – eg much quicker with no delay/hesitation on the slimski login screen when launching rc-local which we were getting with the so-called runit backend (leading to the boot-cheat)

I will be proposing some package updates to enable suss to be made the default backend for all antiX user services spawned through turnstile.

[ProwlerGrMember]

Just an update for everybody’s info.
It is great to see turnstile also available in the Debian & Devuan repos.

However antiX continues to offer its own build for the time being due to a few reasons – the main ones being:
– The debian version does not offer the dinit backend (given dinit isn’t offered/supported in Debian/Devuan)
– The debian version does not build on bookworm (with its current switches in debian/rules source file)
– The pam module comes integrated into the main turnstile package for debian/devuan which may cause problems when installed alongside elogind or consolekit (this is just a guess at this point – antiX provides a seperate libpam-turnstile deb).

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