TrixiePup dev leaves project

[PDP-8Member]

It truly is sad to see radky, a main dev, turn off the lights.

Without getting into their internal politics, you can see it here. Links to the last 11.1.1 release in the first message of thread. Perhaps grab a copy now.

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=14554

It truly is a very nice Pup offering both legacy (xorg) and wayland option during download. SpaceFM and it’s integration has replaced the aging Rox, for good reason. It’s not just because it’s new and shiny, but some don’t realize it. And like antiX’s Icewm, their JWM window manager is a true tour-de-force in that arena.

For end users, you can obviously update your additional software with the normal debian techniques. And easily make your own snapshots, so there’s plenty of life. Just no updates from the main dev.

I thought this release and it’s choices was fantastic! Bridging the gap between those who had never heard of APT before, and those that want to chase or at least test the future. All with a JWM window manager!

(Of course there are respins aplenty, and that’s kind of their problem now. If you started today, one wouldn’t know WHICH puppy project still has support, is a 1-year dead-end one-off, is a NO CHANGE EVER project, or one that has long-term potential. I won’t get into that here.)

THANK YOU Radky for your work.

[AmolMember]

Hello the community !
What a sad news.That confirms my thought that puppy is dying slowly since the give up of 01mcko the dev leader of puppy.Puppy tends to be a classic linux distro, that is a pity.
Amol

[PDP-8Member]

It’s not really dying, there are just a large amount of very talented developers, each with their own vision.

And that’s the problem if one takes it to near guru-worship. 🙂 I like dimkr’s vanilla-dpup totally open and published materials, even if one doesn’t particular care for the vision – the framework for continuation has been laid. Ya know, if someone gets burned out, or decides to follow a different path.

https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/

I just need to figure out how to get a larger font in the foot-terminal. 🙂 There are full/mini/barebones versions, which kinda’ remind me of antiX full/base/core. Even the build-systems are published if you look for it.

Radky broke ground with Bookworm and the Debian way of adding applications. Then trying to support all those community-supplied “pets” at the same time, which may or may not result in conflicting packages. Being an antiX (debian) user myself, that was a natural attraction. But trying to maintain all that backward-compatability with old code and pleasing *everyone* at all times yet trying to stay relevant – yeah, I can see the burnout stage with radky.

I feel something good for all will come of this.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by PDP-8.

[Brian MasinickModerator]

@PDP-8
More than once when I have prepared to move to a different project or a different workplace I try to document and explain the work and discuss methods and potential alternatives so whatever happens next is a good transition,

When I write code or scripts I do the same thing. I’m not a great coder but what I do is clean, clear and well documented. Thar I generally do well.

--
Brian Masinick
Alternate "Search B":
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[PDP-8Member]

Heh, yeah docs even for one’s self. It’s true: whenever I say “oh I’ll remember that”, uh-huh – a year later when my focus has shifted … 🙂

P.S. It’s not a secret, but the root password for setup in vanilladpup is “woofwoof” if you run across that. I like how Porteus blasts the passwords on the setup screen (because you can change them later), so one doesn’t have to scour the ‘net for it. 🙂

Until I find out how to change font size in the foot terminal, I just used apt to install Sakura. Done.

Oh, if one is looking for the “start” menu in these, (at least in vanilladpup wayland) to the left and right of the taskbar are empty spaces, and if you click there, the menu system will appear.

It’s all subjective, but this kind of stuff bugs me. Like having to rely on apriori community knowledge tricks tends to shut out interested newcomers. It’s not intentional, its just because sometimes one can develop too narrow a focus. I’ve done it myself plenty of times, so not a criticism, just an observation.

I have no problem learning new things. But if things are TOO non-obvious, then that’s what made me run right back to the Xorg Bookworm 10.x series of dimkr’s excellent de-crufted puppy code.

UPDATE: Even I’m falling into this trap: mixing the various puppy offerings together, which might not be accurate in all details depending. Sorry about that. I guess that’s the nature of not having an “official” offering and *everything* are simply respins of their own.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by PDP-8.
• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by PDP-8.

[Brian MasinickModerator]

@PDP-8 why do you think I write so often on certain subjects?

One reason is that they are items of personal interest but the other reason is so I can look back and remember.

In addition to that I want to promote our distribution and be helpful to others.

Reasons for me AND reasons for others too.
Works for many people.

--
Brian Masinick
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[PDP-8Member]

Oh definitely I agree with you. I kind of rambled and it wasn’t at you. I think I had a bit too much kafeeine. 🙂

[Brian MasinickModerator]

PDP-8 wrote:

Oh definitely I agree with you. I kind of rambled and it wasn’t at you. I think I had a bit too much kafeeine. 🙂

The part about “rambling” I do plenty of myself! 🙂
Too many thoughts in the brain; many times they “spill out”
whether anyone wants to hear or read them or not.

Around here, we’re not alone, though we may be in a minority in this regard! 🙂

--
Brian Masinick
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[PDP-8Member]

We’re from the 60’s man. I know you like running antiX, but how do you *feel* about it deep down inside? 🙂

That said, I feel like dimkr’s vanillaDpup is forward looking. Sadly, he’s being totally ignored, but how he handles it makes me trust it a bit more from a programming and visionary standpoint. The changes he’s made are not from a change-for-change-sake, but when inspected, have real logic behind them.

Hard to say these things without it being automatically interpreted as denigrating the talent of the others.

But it has devolved into a build-system war, and even guys pushing systemd ! Yikes.

I think dimkr should just make a clean-break. Which he kinda’ has. I’ll revisit the wayland side of his offerings, and get over my butt-hurt about the foot terminal, and install another one to my liking.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by PDP-8. Reason: typos

[anticapitalXMember]

A Tribute to radky and Looking Forward: Potential Collaboration Opportunities

First, I want to echo everyone’s sentiments: thank you radky for the tremendous work on TrixiePup. The decision to step back from a project requires courage, and the legacy you’ve built with TrixiePup64 11.1.1 speaks volumes about your dedication to the community.

@PDP-8 – I appreciate your balanced perspective on the Puppy ecosystem’s current state. You’re absolutely right that the challenge isn’t a lack of talent, but rather the fragmentation that makes it difficult for users to know which projects have long-term viability.

Some Context from the Links:

Looking at the TrixiePup thread, it’s clear that radky put extensive effort into bridging traditional Puppy workflows with modern Debian package management. The dual Xorg/Wayland offering was particularly innovative, and the JWM implementation was indeed exemplary.

@Amol mentioned concerns about Puppy “dying slowly” – while I understand the sentiment, I’d frame it differently. The ecosystem is evolving, and projects like dimkr’s VanillaDpup show there’s still innovation happening. The published build systems and transparent development processes are encouraging signs.

A Potential Path Forward: Learning from antiX

Here’s an idea worth discussing: What if the Puppy community looked at integrating tools similar to antiX’s iso-snapshot and live-usb-maker?

antiX has developed some remarkable tools that could benefit the Puppy ecosystem:

• iso-snapshot: Creates ISO files from live or installed systems, making it trivial for users to create custom respins
• live-usb-maker: A sophisticated tool for creating persistent live USBs with proper storage management
• live-remaster: Combines snapshot and USB creation in one streamlined workflow

Why This Matters for TrixiePup’s Future:

The beauty of TrixiePup’s Debian foundation is that users can continue updating packages independently. However, what’s missing is an easy way for community members to create and share their own maintained versions without needing to become Woof-CE experts.

If tools like antiX’s iso-snapshot were integrated or adapted for Puppy:

• Community members could easily create and share their own TrixiePup continuations
• Users could snapshot their perfectly configured systems
• The barrier to creating “official-quality” respins would be dramatically lowered
• It would democratize the remastering process that Puppy is famous for

Technical Feasibility:

The antiX tools are open source and available as AppImages, meaning they can theoretically run on any Linux distribution. They’ve been tested on Debian, Arch, Manjaro, and others. Given TrixiePup’s Debian base, adaptation should be relatively straightforward.

A Proposal:

Rather than seeing radky’s departure as an ending, what if we viewed it as an opportunity to:

1. Document TrixiePup 11.1.1 thoroughly as a solid foundation
2. Investigate adapting antiX’s snapshot/remaster tools for Puppy use
3. Create a community framework where multiple maintainers can easily publish updates
4. Reduce the “guru worship” problem by making the tools more accessible

@Brian – your point about documentation and smooth transitions is especially relevant here. This could be a chance to build sustainable community practices.

The antiX forum has good discussions about these tools (like this thread) that might provide insights. Perhaps some collaboration between the antiX and Puppy communities could benefit everyone?

Moving Forward:

I’m not suggesting abandoning what makes Puppy unique – the frugal installs, the save files, the minimalism. Rather, I’m proposing we borrow proven tools that could lower the barrier for community continuation of excellent work like TrixiePup.

Would anyone be interested in exploring this direction? I’d be happy to help test or document such an integration if there’s interest.

Again, thank you radky for everything. Your work won’t be forgotten, and hopefully, we can build on the foundation you’ve created.

^{Let's accept antiX as it is
Pure and Elegant by its nature}

[PDP-8Member]

I really like this! I came into the puppy-sphere late without a lot of historical political baggage, nor do I want to denigrate the work of others.

What makes it hard is the lack of any respin’s true intent. There are those that want to stick with their old gtk2 apps, user-contributed old pups, classic 2013 desktop and all that, prior to the Debian-ized repos, whereas there are those that are willing to explore new territory. And all the resultant build-wars and hurt feelings.

This kind of division is unnecessary if everything is simply transparent, and one knows where they stand. Use what tickles you. Unless you go system-d. 🙂

For instance, I just figured out how to increase the font size easily enough in dimkr’s wayland adaptation for the foot terminal. Easy:

Just edit
./config/foot/foot.ini

and change your font size from 10 to something larger, like 16 in my case.

Dunno, maybe I’ll start a thread topic for dimkr’s builds, as more of a diary for newcomers, but maybe not. They already have a forum, but much of it is well-meaning but cross-purpose, cross-info that may or not be applicable to the build-system that the end user is using. It’s a stay-on-focus problem. I guess I don’t want to duplicate that here, just fun little tips once in awhile.

Adopting other’s tools: I dig it – using antiX iso-snapshot and live-usb maker? That would be wonderful. Even though I DD clones and images of sticks on my own anyway…

UPDATE: Heh, I’m already ahead of myself. dimkr uses IMG, not iso format for wayland. I have no problem with that, but there are those that can’t see beyond the iso utilities. Here, if antiX was to be incorporated with dimkr’s releases, iso-snapshot would have to be change to img-snapshot. No xorriso involved.

Its 2025, but there’s something that can ignite a forever flame-war. 🙂 Heh, when I DD stuff myself, or use clonezilla or rescuezilla, I’m dealing with images, not iso. Maybe that’s what freaks out the classic pup forever crew too. Dunno.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by PDP-8.

[PDP-8Member]

Observation and Solution

Without delving into antiX org stuff, I had an existential imaginary executive board meeting with the Puppy Linux folk. Barry knows what I’m talking about.

Let’s get radky back! How?

Have radky drop the wayland stuff, and stick to the tried and true formula of X11, which still works! It is clear that’s what the community really wants. Much of the user time spent in wayland release, is trying to fix X11 issues for those old programs they worked hard for and love, and are cool with the CE and specific tweaks known only to the respin dev. Ok, fine. Rock on.

But no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Have dimkr focus on the wayland-only side. Nobody is really taking him up on his build-system available for years anyway. And if they did, the distractions of trying to get the eyeballs of xeyes to follow you around is simply a not-fix. 🙂

And I believe this delineation of focus, NOT DIVISION, means we can all be friends again and maybe relieve the pressure of trying to satisfy all people all the time.

How many of us dual-boot depending on hardware? Why not adopt that model between dual booting X11 or Wayland depending on your environment. It doesn’t have to be a one-size fits all thing. That’s 80’s unix-war talk. 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by PDP-8.

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