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[Brian MasinickModerator]

Well said @sybok.

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Brian Masinick
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[andfreeMember]

Brian Masinick wrote:

Good point Punranger

Brian Masinick wrote:

Well said @sybok.

I agree with both, too.
The freedom struggle is inseparable from the anti-fascist ethos.
But nobody wants to get damaged by people struggling for their freedom.
Perhaps, many would recognize one’s right not to starve, but wouldn’t like it if a starving person ate their food.
I also see that the flag has been removed ( @badorties, you can rejoin). It’s better now. I don’t like the flags, but I really like our logo.
Now that I think about it, the “Proudly anti-fascist” slogan could be removed as well.
Personally, I haven’t done anything I’m proud of. Whenever I felt pride, it was for the wrong reasons.
But it’s not about me and my own preferences.
I’m just afraid that the anti-fascist ethos will become less and less popular. More and more meticulous clarifications will be needed for reconciling our anti-fascist slogan with people’s concerns. It will be time-wasting.
Let’s imagine a couple of people who have just escaped from a Nazi camp. They’re hungry. They steal a bread. We are challenged to judge their behaviour. Our anti-fascist slogan on one pan, people’s concerns about their property on the other. Would we respond that we recognize the right of those fugitives to eat their own bread in a prison cell of a well-ordered, liberal state? No, I’m sure that @sybok would think of a much better formulation. But it would take time. And time is needed for antiX-development.
Finally, I wonder if it would be a good idea for @anticapitalista to find a new Nickname, so as to avoid wasting time on clarifications about people’s starvation and property.
(I hope that the name of @robin is not a reference to the famous extremist)

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by andfree.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by andfree.

antiX utilities for processing PDF files (posted by ChPol)

[Xunzi_23Member]

Back to a weird playbook1

nobody wants to get damaged by people struggling for their freedom. An argument out of nehetanjus playbook.

Why do people have to struggle for their freedom. Because it has been taken from them which is tyranny or
a variant of slavery. Capitalists carefully keep people they call workewrs poor so they are controllable.
I am not a capitalist, I do my best never to behave like one..

Perhaps, many would recognize one’s right not to starve, but wouldn’t like it if a starving person ate their food.
I would immediately share what I could, or purchase and freely give what I am able

Have you ever been hungry???. I mean really hungry, it is a desperate situation and pretty much anyone would even kill to survive.

I’m just afraid that the anti-fascist ethos will become less and less popular. More and more meticulous clarifications will be needed for reconciling our anti-fascist slogan with people’s concerns. It will be time-wasting.

Really there is no need for clarification, fsck faschists.

Let’s imagine a couple of people who have just escaped from a Nazi camp. They’re hungry. They steal a bread. We are challenged to judge their behaviour. Our anti-fascist slogan on one pan, people’s concerns about their property on the other.

Would we respond that we recognize the right of those fugitives to eat their own bread in a prison cell of a well-ordered, liberal state?

I really want to see you held in in a prison cell, in a so called liberal state like us or uk. I do know what prisons look like, and detention camps.
Slimy words about persons eating decent food in a prison cell are more than cynical.

I would feed and help those persons immediately not talk about crappy judgement.

I consider the andfree post to be out of the far right playbook and pretty vile in its formulations…

[RobinMember]

andfree wrote:

the “Proudly anti-fascist” slogan could be removed as well.

Simply no. This is the DNA of antiX. Removing this sentence from prominent position would mean to give up its identity.

andfree wrote:

I wonder if it would be a good idea for @anticapitalista to find a new Nickname

I’m fine with his choice. It represents another segment of the antiX DNA.

andfree wrote:

I hope that the name of @robin is not a reference to the famous extremist

Clearly no. See European Robin and listen to this. But since you mention it, and thinking about your interpretation: not that a bad coincide. If you lay stress on the aspect of struggle for social justice as taught by Thomas Pogge.

andfree wrote:

But nobody wants to get damaged by people struggling for their freedom.

Do you really think this is possible, if the ones who lock them up won’t stop that without fighting? And let me put it the other way round: Nobody wants to get damaged by people disenfranchising others.

andfree wrote:

I’m just afraid that the anti-fascist ethos will become less and less popular.

So you think, that we should better give way the fascists without any word of protest? That’s not antiX like. Using antiX is a statement.

Sorry andfree, I’m not with you what you have pronounced in your complete above answer, not a single of your points. With a single exception: The freedom struggle is inseparable from the anti-fascist ethos.

Xunzi_23 wrote:

I would feed and help those persons immediately not talk about crappy judgement.

Thanks for that comment, Xunzi. Signed.

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[sybokMember]

@Xunzi_23:
I salute your attitude!

Just to clarify (if it is needed) my example about unauthorised taking away of food:
It’s not that I would not help those starving, if they politely knock on my door or I find some.
I have been helping by giving away small amounts of money.

Then, I had bad past experiences with giving small amounts of money to people who live (or pretend to live) on the street.
I found out I have been lied to (happened to me more than once) or that they bought liquor/alcohol instead of food.
Regarding that, I know that alcohol contains a lot of calories due to ethanol being disassembled into sugars during the metabolic processes, still it seems to me as a not a good way of spending it, especially if some of them said it to be for food (and I personally think that “beer = liquid bread” qualifies here).
I am more cautious since these insincere calls for help.
Is this a crappy judgement? I do not know.

[Xunzi_23Member]

Hi sybok, I have met a lot of the drinkers and smokers asking for food. If they can smoke they have, in
most cases enough money to buy food. Many others who beg, especialy the ladies with small kids that come
from Romania and Bulgaria are held like slaves and beaten if they do not make enough money.
How I know, I made a sort of friendship with one such lady and she told me the story, I was able to
confirm that she and many others were brought to the assigned places by men with mercedes cars.
How much the ladies got in the end I do not know, for sure the fancy cars pointed to most of the money
going to the gangmasters.

If a person says he his hungry, I say ok lets go, I pay for your food and we talk. If they want cash
smell of alcohol or nicotine I am cautious. Lady says, I can not feed my child, or baby, my answer ok
lets go and buy some age appropriate food. I will rarely give money and whenever possible wait talk
and watch a person eat, or eat together.

Other times I just follow my feeling when I look deeply at the way a person looks moves is dressed
the depth of the persons eyes.

I have been scammed several times, some small sums, some larger, thats life and a reason to be more
diligent rather than refuse help to others who`s life story we do not, or do not yet know.

On the brighter side, I have met some very interesting persons who were having a very tough time,
often of no fault of their own. Some living on the streets or hiding in the forest.

Rarely i met up with real criminals, they do not ask for help.
They lie, cheat, take what they want, often flaunting weapons or in a violent manner.

That part reminds me very much of the present situation in usa.

[anticapitalistaForum Admin]

Whether an individual chooses or not to help a ‘beggar’ with money/food is up to them.
I would hope that most people would at least show empathy rather than hostility to those ‘begging’.

IMO the big issue related to this thread is about a very real and specific example of starving people and food aid.
Gaza.
Israel is using food aid to further kill and torture the people of Gaza.
Just read all the latest news reports, even ones that are pro-Israel.
What can we do to stop Israel weaponizing aid?

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Brian MasinickModerator]

@anticapitalista,
I’m 100% with you on this and I think even during times of conflicts and wars between opposing nations, there should never be deliberate harm done to civilians (though sometimes there ARE casualties; war is an ugly thing). Deliberately allowing, causing, or harming those who are in difficulties of any kind, including starvation, is an inhumane thing.

I’m not in agreement with the current US administration in what they do. Within the past week I had a nice conversation with my Jewish next door neighbor and she agrees with me about both the US and Israel in their current handling of national and international events. She went further to say that it’s been primarily the negative influences of Benjamin Netanyahu that have created the current awful situation. She says, and I’ve also read this, that Benjamin would be in jail if he was not the current prime minister of Israel.

In the US enough people voted along party lines and brought back Donald Trump, so we’ve already had 8-9 years of bad leadership, if not more than that. Obama was much better, and a much more personal leader than either Trump or Joseph R. Biden, Jr., the most recent US Presidents. But it’s been a long time since things were “good” from a leadership standpoint.

So the US blindly standing behind Israel is one of the worst leadership moves; unfortunately the majority of political leaders seem to have direct or indirect ties to Israeli traditions; that doesn’t help at all.

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[Xunzi_23Member]

Sorry for the deviation, the sh*t the entity andfree posted had to be answered.

What we can do to stop Israel, Be loud and defy the efforts to stop anyone talking about Gaza.
Germany UK USA, probably France, and others are buying Israeli products like Palantire, are actively
protecting Israel despite its disgusting inhumane actions, selling weapons is active support.

I have been trying to find lists of companys owned by Israel or Israeli persons or supporters,
same goes for usa companys or those currently investing in usa.
Stellantis I am looking at you, my next vehicle will not be from that company.
I will not fly with any newer Boeing. No Mc Donalds Jim Beam Coca Cola pepsi Pringles, in bev
US vinyards etc.
If the last taxi is a Tesla I will ask the driver to call another cab expecting him to refuse,
then walk or wait for an alternative.

usa is unconditionally supporting israel.
We should, I think also actively lobby the EU commission for a US Monster truck ban, and trump
tarif retribution while remembering the vested interest of France due stellantis which owns for
example monsterous gas gussling RAM.
The vehicles are a danger to all on the roads while being loved by small brained agressive driving
persons, in Germany almost exclusively a status symbol of those with very right wing views.

Being anti Lobbyist, posting facts on social media when the eu commission bends or omits them on for
example mastodon or X.

The only weapon I presently hold against what is happening in Gaza is my money so I do my best to
spend accordingly.

I wish US brands were store marked as is often the case in Denmark, same goes for Israili companys.

[andfreeMember]

Xunzi_23 wrote:

I consider the andfree post to be out of the far right playbook and pretty vile in its formulations…

Xunzi_23 wrote:

Sorry for the deviation, the sh*t the entity andfree posted had to be answered.

Don’t you agree that Robin Hood was an extremist?
Joking aside, I’m afraid that my choice to write in such a “provocatively cynical” way was a bad one, but I did not intend to upset anyone. I just wanted to raise some concerns.

Robin wrote:

Sorry andfree, I’m not with you what you have pronounced in your complete above answer, not a single of your points. With a single exception: The freedom struggle is inseparable from the anti-fascist ethos.

Thanks, @robin. This “single exception” is the only one point that I would really like to be accepted.

Xunzi_23 wrote:

Rarely i met up with real criminals, they do not ask for help.
They lie, cheat, take what they want, often flaunting weapons or in a violent manner.

And what about if some of them are the most deprived? Remember what you have written:

Xunzi_23 wrote:

Have you ever been hungry???. I mean really hungry, it is a desperate situation and pretty much anyone would even kill to survive.

It’s exactly the point I think is missed in conclusions like this:

sybok wrote:

Consider an extremist leader who says: “We are hungry! We have the right not to starve!” (so far, so good); then they add: “Let’s take actions – take the food wherever we can find it and get it by whatever means necessary.” (which crosses the border for current me).

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anticapitalista wrote:

Whether an individual chooses or not to help a ‘beggar’ with money/food is up to them.
I would hope that most people would at least show empathy rather than hostility to those ‘begging’.

However, I think that some useful conclusions can be drawn from the relevant discussion between @xunzi_23 and @sybok. Maybe I’ll come back to this point later. Now, I’m in a hurry to prevent further misinterpretation of my previous post.

Brian Masinick wrote:

I think even during times of conflicts and wars between opposing nations, there should never be deliberate harm done to civilians (though sometimes there ARE casualties; war is an ugly thing). Deliberately allowing, causing, or harming those who are in difficulties of any kind, including starvation, is an inhumane thing.

I’m “afraid” that a cruelty-free war could never exist.

anticapitalista wrote:

IMO the big issue related to this thread is about a very real and specific example of starving people and food aid.
Gaza.
Israel is using food aid to further kill and torture the people of Gaza.
Just read all the latest news reports, even ones that are pro-Israel.
What can we do to stop Israel weaponizing aid?

So, after a rest, a troublesome post of mine and some deviation, the hard questions are being asked again.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by andfree.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by andfree.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by andfree.

antiX utilities for processing PDF files (posted by ChPol)

[Xunzi_23Member]

Some common Israeli brands I completely boycott.

Chocolates by Max Brenner, Soda Stream, Sabon, Waze, Aroma Espresso Bar, Wissotzski Tea,
Jaffa oranges, Israeli Figs and Dates, Ahava cosmeticas, michal Negrin, Laline, Wix website
builder, Tempo Beers, Angel bakeries, Bermans Bakery, Bissli, MacDavid. Carmel winery,
vodca Perfect, Mey Eden lone Tree Brewery.

Mail these guys for aggressor Israel horror tours advice https://planitisrael.com/

I also do my best to avoid Nestle products, why pls read on the many disgusting practices
of that giant hyper capitalist concern.

[anticapitalistaForum Admin]

So, after a rest, a troublesome post of mine and some deviation, the hard questions are being asked again.

There seems to be 2 andfree posting contradictory comments.

@andfree – so are you saying that it is a good thing to get back on the topic of Palestine with or without a flag on the front page?

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Brian MasinickModerator]

anticapitalista wrote:

So, after a rest, a troublesome post of mine and some deviation, the hard questions are being asked again.

There seems to be 2 andfree posting contradictory comments.

@andfree – so are you saying that it is a good thing to get back on the topic of Palestine with or without a flag on the front page?

Anti, to whatever anyone may say or do, from the very beginning this has always been your platform to share your technical skills and your personal and political views.

I often didn’t know several things; after reading your contributions and explaining it has been helpful. Regardless of what we believe or don’t believe I’m at least respectful of as many viewpoints as possible and I don’t want to eliminate any expression of them, though I do think that some people ought to express their views in our cafe instead of in the middle of testing topics.

As far as this topic it can remain as it is and I will leave it to you in terms of allowing people to respectfully write their own point of view as long as the conversation meets our own policies for the forum.

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[anticapitalXMember]

Brian Masinick wrote:

As far as this topic it can remain as it is and I will leave it to you in terms of allowing people to respectfully write their own point of view as long as the conversation meets our own policies for the forum.

the idea of creating this topic , was so simple .
I simply thought someone hacked the antiX website , and asked for help in the SITE HELP section of the forum .
I didn’t know this conversation goes this far .
however I like to see antiX logo on the top of forum page (as is now) .
I also respect anti’s comments and believes .
thanks for removing that flag by the way .

^{Let's accept antiX as it is
Pure and Elegant by its nature}

[Brian MasinickModerator]

anticapitalX wrote:

Brian Masinick wrote:

As far as this topic it can remain as it is and I will leave it to you in terms of allowing people to respectfully write their own point of view as long as the conversation meets our own policies for the forum.

the idea of creating this topic , was so simple .
I simply thought someone hacked the antiX website , and asked for help in the SITE HELP section of the forum .
I didn’t know this conversation goes this far .
however I like to see antiX logo on the top of forum page (as is now) .
I also respect anti’s comments and believes .
thanks for removing that flag by the way .

Yeah, isn’t that a surprise? I’m confident that you (and many of us) did not anticipate the amount of comments that have arisen here, and I imagine that @anticapitalista is ready to gradually soften those conversations and increase the work and testing that is necessary to make our antiX 25 release as good as it possibly can be.

We’ve already received a fair amount of effort, testing, issue discovery, comments, and suggestion, just from this first Alpha 1 build of antiX 25. Since we’re not expecting the Debian project to suddenly release Trixie at any moment, we do have some time to get our release right.

As for Debian, though it’s not released either, I’ve been following it on and off throughout their testing cycle and I’ve run a few of the builds either live or installed. Of course their stuff has systemd process handling throughout, so there’s a lot we have to change, but there’s still a lot of their code that we’re able to use as is, too, so I’m happy to report that their work has been progressing well, too, but I can also tell you that their testing cycle is one of the most complicated ones in the software community because they build Debian for so many different architectures; they have cut out a few of them that are barely tested or used; hopefully that will help them to get Trixie out, but I hope they don’t just decide to kill stuff off because we use some really old stuff in our projects, so we always have to watch out for what they may decide to do.

Recently @ProwlerGr, in his effort to highlight the many diverse init alternatives available to us, discovered that Debian, on a whim, decided to eliminate a few of these, causing the “inst-diversity” project to scramble and place a hold on the GRUB boot loader so that the Debian reconfiguration of it wouldn’t block out several of our unique init alternatives. @ProwlerGr also wrote to the boot loader maintainer and asked to put back the functionality to support different init, as expressed in the Debian project some ten years ago as they made their move to systemD. I’m not sure his plea got any change, so if we want to explore different init possibilities we may have to do some of our own work with boot loaders to ensure they can support whatever we want to do. Again @ProwlerGr and @anticapitalista are on the cutting edge of this analysis and effort.

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