- This topic has 81 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated Oct 19-2:54 pm by anticapitalista.
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andfree
There seems to be 2 andfree posting contradictory comments.
@andfree – so are you saying that it is a good thing to get back on the topic of Palestine with or without a flag on the front page?
I really don’t know. But the fact that there was no longer a reference to the genocide on the front page, combined with a “well said” argument about “how someone can say yes to supporting anti-fascism, and then say no to supporting a free Palestine” (also including an example about “starving extremists”) as our last word on the topic, was just intolerable to me.
I don’t know if a “stop genocide” logo would be more widely acceptable and make it easier for ones to stand in solidarity. I suppose it’s not necessary to replace the antiX logo. It could be placed next to it. A relevant reference could also be added under our “Proudly anti-fascist” slogan. Somebody else may have a better idea.I’m confident that you (and many of us) did not anticipate the amount of comments that have arisen here, and I imagine that @anticapitalista is ready to gradually soften those conversations and increase the work and testing that is necessary to make our antiX 25 release as good as it possibly can be.
My irritating post expressed in a more “cynical” way this exact concern:
More and more meticulous clarifications will be needed (…) But it would take time. And time is needed for antiX-development.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by andfree.
antiX utilities for processing PDF files (posted by ChPol)
Xunzi_23
My irritating post
WRONG WORDS FOR INFLAMING HATE SPEECH.
@xunzi_23, have you read my admission that my choice to write in such a “provocatively cynical” way was a bad one or you missed it because you were writing your own post at the same time? I’m not requiring you to accept it. I’m just wondering.
antiX utilities for processing PDF files (posted by ChPol)
punranger
What should the last word be on this matter? Well, my last word in this thread is this: I just read an article from my national public news about a family living in Jordan. Their newborn baby is in fact a fifth generation refugee. Their forebears were forcibly expelled from their homes and property in 1948. Around 750 000 Palestinians were forced into fleeing. Rules obviously vary in different countries, but in Jordan, descendants still retain refugee status, and are still dependent on UN aid. Bizarrely, Palestinian refugees now make up half of the country’s population.
UN resolution 194 established that Palestinians should have a right to return and be compensated for their loss. Palestinians obviously uphold this right, while Israel obviously denies it.
Babies born into this have no influence on the situation, and must accept whatever decision parents make on their behalf.
I do not have a solution. But these people are victims of a grave injustice. And if one or more of them revert to desperate measures in their fight, that does not change the grave injustice. And that is what I think about when I read “Free Palestine”. That shall be MY final word in this matter.
antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg
If we want to leave the conversation behind, this “last” or “final” word is OK for me. If not, I would like to read words by @punranger in this matter again.
antiX utilities for processing PDF files (posted by ChPol)
Robin
UN resolution 194 established that Palestinians should have a right to return and be compensated for their loss.
In my eyes the UN had done horribly wrong in 1948. The way the founding of Israel was implemented was simply a crime, committed by the UN and the founders of Israel and the following extremist Zionist governments. Yes, Yews would now have a right to live there now if they had patiently and step by step slowly over the past decades made friendship with the people living already there, and waiting for being welcome by the inhabitants and owners, paying fair prices and not pressing them to sell their property, instead of violently taking over the land. But no, they wanted to grow fast, and have simply stolen the land, the same way current Russia has stolen the Krim and the Donbas, and the current US president threatened to steal Greenland, and Germany had stolen Polland and other European countries. To say it clearly: All these are unforgivable crimes and break of civilisation after the Age of Enlightenment (see Kant: Enlightenment is the departure of the human being from its self-incurred immaturity). People born post this age are responsible for what they do to others. We modern people now KNOW. And hence they (the state Israel) can’t ever own the land lawfully until they make a mutual and fair arrangement with the former owners and their descendants, based on true freedom for both, whatever it costs and whatever they have to admit, whatever they have to concede to them. If looking at the case objectively, the Jews are still merely guests in the country they call their own currently. The choice is up to them: Either they will have to commit complete genocide like the Germans tried in Third Reich to commit against the Jews themselves (Thank God that the rest of the world has stopped us, even when far to late because of previously applied policy of appeasement), or they will have to learn the hard way that you can’t take away somebody the land of birth violently without producing this way a never ending as violent reaction from the former inhabitants and their descendants for many many hundred years. Single way out then would be establishing a fascist state, what is precisely what I observe currently in Israel. Sad that they don’t understand that this, what they do now to the Palestinians, is precisely the same fascist thing what the Germans had done to them themselves a couple decades ago.
A very impressive symbol for this are the Oranges. Xunzi has mentioned them already:
Jaffa oranges
I miss them sadly. I remember their taste from my childhood, (these where the only oranges sold those days, they are really delicious), and I can’t wait the day Israel comes to their senses again, so we no longer need to avoid them. The Spanish and Italian Navelina replacement can’t hold a candle to these oranges. (I guess the Americans here have their own Jaffa raised in Florida). But, like Xunzi said, here in Europe you simply can’t buy and enjoy them as innocently as in those days, since here they come from Israel.
Jaffa oranges are harvested in the Palestinian Territories as well, not only in Israel. Please take that into account. As an acid test, you can try to buy some of these “Palestinian” Jaffa oranges. You’ll learn that Israel makes even the export of these nearly impossible for the people corralled in these territories.
These oranges are a symbol for the happenings starting with the founding of Israel. You should read The Land of the Sad Oranges yourself. Then you’ll understand. It is a short story taken from a book of same title with some more of them in it. Everybody should read this book before answering in this thread.
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anticapitalista
anti-semetic drivel removed and poster banned.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
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